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Thread: Few ideas on the game

  1. #11

    Re: Few ideas on the game

    The track editor you are working on... :-\

    Is there another one?

    Well, here is the above mentioned setup, as a full sized track. I set it up with slightly better controls, more like a car. (Just pretend it is hovercraft super-computer stabilizers helping you.)

    100 meters wide blocks. Track is composed of 10 of these 6 turns (elbows) and 4 straight sections.

    The bank on the track is 4 meters on each side, with the 1 meter thick upper walls. The track is 10 meters wide in the center, between the banks. The full track width is 20 meters. Inner turn radius is 40 meters, outer turn radius is 60 meters. (Though, banked turns would be nice... I didn't have that much time for an exotic setup. Plus, they still don't collide yet.)

    Camera views are F1, F2, F3, F4... Craft control is the arrows. (I only put 10 points for the crafts to follow, but you can see that they could use a little more guidance, or brains.)

    I added my test-ship also... (Only the ground/water has an image on it. The M15 models do not have image-maps yet.)

    I turned off the buildings because they are still in the old locations. (I just fixed my corrupted graphics drivers, so I could only play for a little while. I will be throwing in some larger M15 files and mapped objects to give me an idea how detailed the track can potentially get.)

    I have attached the zip of the program, and an image of g-force, speeds and turn radius data.

    60 meters (The outer turn radius) is roughly 197 feet. That places a "car" at around a 45 MPH speed limit, before they slide off an unbanked road. But, like I said, we can make the crafts stick to the track like glue, and cover it up with the story. Even my larger radius and width feels a little restrictive. (Talking about the track.)

    Ok, going back to create buildings...
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  2. #12
    thinBasic MVPs kryton9's Avatar
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    Re: Few ideas on the game

    Jason, wow you are doing some great work. I really like how you are thinking about all the aspects and demonstrating it.

    On the next release can you also add perhaps a camera height adjustment for the chase camera only. I would love to see the chase from different heights. I personally feel a lower camera would feel better, but with an adjustable camera height the player could adjust to what they prefer or we could have some presets as in many race games.
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  3. #13
    Super Moderator Petr Schreiber's Avatar
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    Re: Few ideas on the game

    Hi Jason,

    very nice demo
    Did you used SketchUp for design of pieces?


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  4. #14

    Re: Few ideas on the game

    Ok Jason, very nice demo.

    As I see that you might be caple of doing it, would you like to take over the track editor development? I could concentrate more on the gui functionset and art/music.

  5. #15

    Re: Few ideas on the game

    I might be able to do the track editor... But I am having difficulty understanding all your good code. (That is a total compliment.)

    You have put so much thought into the function... It surpasses my understanding of how it actually functions. (I sort-of understand some of the code, but there is a lot there which I do not understand. (Anything I did to the editor would be a complete hack. Trust me, I already tried to make changes to it, without any luck.)

    The changes I was trying to make, were related to the grid-size. I put one of the full scale parts in the object folder, and it doesn't like them. The grid-size is microscopic to the life-size parts. The best I could do, was change the grid-value, to match the red base to the part. But the camera would not handle the zoom needed to view even one part. It went out into space, and that is where I got lost. (The "Preview" camera also became visible, because it was "Above" the grid, not below it, behind a clipping plain.)

    However... What I/we can do... is come-up with a compatible format between the editor, and the game. We are at the point where we need to start knowing some of the dimensions before anything can progress. (We already have the 1unit = 1meter, standard. But now things like track-size/scale, ship size/scale, world/city size/scale, are needed for the rest of the formulas.)

    As is the case with the editor... It is not scalable, the way it is programmed. (It is nearly impossible to make a program handle all possible values. Even my code will not work a scale-up larger than 10, or smaller than 0.01)

    Actually, the only issue I had with a world larger than 500units x 500units... was a comment in the help-files which was about the view-distance.

    Default value is 150 meters
    Please keep in mind the bigger the draw-distance is, the worst precision Z order operations you get !
    I don't know if that was talking about a literal issue with the number 150... which it states above the comment. Or if it was just mentioning a trait of GL, which is related to overall scale in distance. 150 should hold no significance, but that statement suggest that beyond 150meters (by our case), that issues are expected.

    I see an issue with lighting, using such large numbers in the game values... Lights don't seem to match, or function correctly. (Ambient and Point.) They are not ambient, and the point does not function on all surfaces the same. (Mostly the smooth, it will shade two flat triangles on the same plain with two complete opposite shades. Turn the track to SMOOTH and not PRECISE, and inspect the outside and connection pieces.)

    OMG, I was just thinking that... (Comment about the views.)

    This morning, after I posted this... I changed the camera to a close hood-view, close-behind view, in-craft view... Now 80 MPH looks like 80 MPH. (Well, closer to 80. I still need to put other things in the game for motion scale.)

    Yes, that was sketch-up to make those parts. I set the units to Meters, and exported them as units. (I like sketch-up because it is fast to make things. Draw a square, pull it up, you get a box. Draw a square on the box, push it in, you have a door. Push it in all the way, you have a bridge. Load a CAD wall-profile for a house, pull it up, you have a house with no roof. Draw a square, draw a line through the center, pull the line up, you have a roof.)

    With the new V6 being free from google, it makes a nice tool for 3D, if you have the OBJ export thing.

    Just don't expect to make GTA or MORROWIND with it.

    I am playing with the news-paper idea, but I can't seem to get the fonts to work. (One more thing to learn.)

    I was thinking that the same camera in the editor which shows the preview, could be used to create track/scenery icons for selection, as opposed to the list-view. (In the future, not now.) Projecting a BMP onto a simple square as a button for selecting the part. Once selected, it goes into the preview window, above the icon area and spinning to show you a 360 view.

    I am still trying to think of how we can have the rebels interact with us, as non-cup racers.

  6. #16
    thinBasic MVPs kryton9's Avatar
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    Re: Few ideas on the game

    [quoteI am still trying to think of how we can have the rebels interact with us, as non-cup racers.[/quote]

    I thought they could be the ones that place bad pickup items in the race:
    bombs (make you tumble for loss of time)
    slicks (make you slide and spin again for loss in time)
    engine pulse( slows down your glider to half speed for a time)

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  7. #17

    Re: Few ideas on the game

    That too... but by interaction, I am talking about how they do that...

    EG, would they be throwing them over the race-wall... Dropping them from fly-over vehicles... Jumping into a race with us, as another craft, and dispersing havok that way... Or purely silent and suggestive... and we just assume that the still-obstruction in the road ahead, was placed by them... (Sticking to the "Unseen" element in the story.)

    Even something like a sabotaged craft element... (Suddenly in a race, your guidance system that controls your turn-assistance goes buggy, and you have reduced steering... Thus, needing a replacement item. It would still work, but perform unpredictably... over-steering to the left, or just generally.)

    Would they have the power to "Raise Anarchy" in a conquered city/track, once won, if you only won it by a few seconds... (Spreading propaganda, demanding another race... Possibly even racing them at that point, since they are the political challengers. "Hey, I think your win was a fluke, the people think so too... Prove you are worthy of running this city!" Thus, until the challenge is met, you no longer gain any items that that city provided. Though you would keep what is still working on your craft. But you could never say you are the ruler of all cities until you race them. Or have another race for keeping that city/track.)

  8. #18
    Super Moderator Petr Schreiber's Avatar
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    Re: Few ideas on the game

    Hi,

    regarding the view distance and visual impact.
    It is not directly true everything beyond 150 is terrible, and smaller than 150 nice.

    The problem is related to depth scaling. The problem is - some card support only 16bit Z-Buffer. That means, they can differentiate only 65 536 different depth values.

    For 150 meters it means 65 536 / 150 ~= 437 levels of depth per meter, which is resolution of about ~1/4 of centimeter. Bigger the distance, bigger the artifacts ( worse the resolution of depth ).

    Some GPU vendors use advanced Z buffer compression techniques allowing much better precision ( ATi, NVIDIA ), so the final look is really good ... some others do not care and that is why the output is often really ugly.

    So good to keep this in mind. I recommend frequent testing on Intels especially...


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  9. #19
    thinBasic MVPs kryton9's Avatar
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    Re: Few ideas on the game

    Guys I need tile sizes that the editor will use both for tracks and city tiles.

    My thoughts:
    Each City 2km x 2km
    Each City is 4 Quadrants (parts of town): Business, Residential, Factory, Educational/Recreational
    Each Quadrant is 1km x 1km
    How many tiles should we have in each quadrant for the editors?

    I am thinking the track and city tiles should be the same size. This way I can make city blocks with tracks going under bridges for example in buildings or tunnels and the open tracks can work well with the city.

    What do you guys think of the sizes also I am open to any other suggestions. But it would be nice to finalize this so I can start modeling. Thanks.
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  10. #20

    Re: Few ideas on the game

    I am noticing that items on my glitched video card begin to intermix at about a view-length just over 1000 units.

    That would be about 10 track lengths if we use the 100 meter track blocks which contain a track that is 20 meters wide. I am thinking that the largest track-block would be 200 by 200 (4 blocks), with other sections being within that size limit. A 200 by 200 (4 block) city object could be designated as one of the required elements of the tracks, which would be the "landmark" for tracks in the same city. Fill-in blocks should be within the same 100 by 100 meter size, so we should have enough room to envelop the track, against the horizon.

    I just create a 100 meter cube and save it as an object onto another layer, as a guide. (264 by 900 feet is about a city-block in Manhattan. Our blocks would be just a hair over that size.)

    I am playing with some other track-shapes, for use as non-square pieces. (2 blocks wide, L shaped, and the 4 block.) Playing with the idea about the split tracks and banked tight turns. If we decide to use them, or something similar, we should swap OBJ profiles of the track-profile of choice.

    We still need to decide on a vehicle size also. (I am using the 1 meter tall, 1 meter wide, 2 meter long limit. That is more like a long personal craft, as opposed to a large "Space Ship" style craft. I was not sure how we would want to portray these. It is a little harder to visualize agile movement in a large craft, which is why I designed the smaller size. Sorry, that was the star-wars speeders image that I have stuck in my head, combined with a bob-sled style shape.

    Once buildings are in the sandbox, for some visual playing, we can get a better idea of track and vehicle scale. (I suppose images on the track might also help. LOL. The track is kind-of bright. I will upload the new one with the view-changes tomorrow afternoon.)

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