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JosephE
19-05-2011, 22:07
Well, if you're in the US, you've probably heard the talk about the end of the world.

US preacher warns end of the world is nigh: 21 May, around 6pm, to be precise (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-preacher-warns-end-of-the-world-is-nigh-21-may-around-6pm-to-be-precise-2254139.html)

Everybody's talking about it where I am, lol.

danbaron
20-05-2011, 00:47
It's a good article.

We are hearing commercials on the radio for it, here in California.

It seems to me that he (Harold Camping) is sincere.

722500 = (5 * 10 * 17)^2

Somehow, he determined from the Bible that, (5 * 10 * 17)^2 is the number of days from Christ's crucifixion to the end of the world? How? ??

There are lots of other biblical scholars, and none of them came to his conclusion. But, all of them are not as enlightened as he is?

(The prime factorization of 722500 equals 2 * 2 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 17 * 17.)

As close as I can find, there are 365.242199 days in a year.

722500 / 365.242199 = 1978.1394427537107 years.

0.1394427537107 * 365.242199 = 50.93037799990496

So, I guess according to his calculation, the End should be 1978 years and 51 days from, 1 April AD33.

I get that the End should be on 2011-05-22, not, 2011-05-21. ??

"The end of the world is nigh; 21 May, to be precise. That's the date when Harold Camping, a preacher from Oakland, California, is confidently predicting the Second Coming of the Lord. At about 6pm, he reckons 2 per cent of the world's population will be immediately "raptured" to Heaven; the rest of us will get sent straight to the Other Place."

Is 6PM, for California?

Is the "Other Place", worse than, "this place"?

I looked, Israel is 10 hours ahead of California.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=110

So, while now it is 2011-05-19 in California, it is 2011-05-20 in Israel (I verified it).

I think that according to his logic, the End should be at 3PM (I think the Bible mentions Christ dying at 3PM, or, its equivalent.), Sunday, 2011-05-22, in Jerusalem.

That would still be on Sunday, 2011-05-22, in California, but at 5AM. ??

Now I looked again, and, London is 2 hours behind Jerusalem. So, it seems to me that the End in Britain should be at 1PM, Sunday, 2011-05-22.

The one day discrepancy, seems strange to me.

I think, his prediction should be for Jerusalem time.

For such an event, he should be able to do the calculation, yes?

Of course, there still is the matter of how he knows that Christ was crucified on 1 April AD33. I know that experts argue about the year. And, I've never heard anyone say that the day was April 1st.

So, it seems to me that he is going, "way out on a limb".

He has the problem of accounting for, (5 * 10 * 17)^2, whether the date should be 2011-05-21 or 2011-05-22 (but I guess if he is correct, it won't matter on 2011-05-23), AD33, and, 1 April.

Additionally, he has the problem of whether God exists. Many people (most recently Stephen Hawking), don't think so.

I do notice that, probably because of the publicity, people are nervous about it (for instance, they make jokes).

Generally, people (including me), are ultimately ruled by emotion, not reason.

I think the people who mock Camping, do so because he makes them anxious.

Many people are waiting like vultures to see what Camping will do, if and when this (his second) prediction is determined to be wrong.

But, I guess that at his age, 89, he is probably not too worried.

Goodbye. :!: :?:

(Actually, probably not, "Goodbye". According to Camping, approximately 2% of people will go to Heaven, and, the rest will go to Hell (Here's another problem, where does the, "2%", come from?). So, if he is correct, most of us will probably be together in Hell. And if he is incorrect, we will still be together, here.)

(Which would be better, going to Hell, or, ceasing to exist? How could we make the determination? (But, in that case, it wouldn't matter, right? We would not be given the choice, correct? (We don't get many choices, do we? As well as I can remember, we also did not get a choice about being born.)))

:diablo:

JosephE
20-05-2011, 01:14
Dan, that's an excellent post. I'm wondering where he gets all that too. He seems to be leaving out a lot of information about his math and calculations, even if it had any significance.

It certainly doesn't seem to be giving Christians a good reputation...

My only guess is that this makes a lot of money (t-shirt sales, lol), but I wouldn't know what his motives are.

Oh, and as for the 2% going to heaven, I'm pretty sure there are way more professing Christians in the world than that. From a quick google search, there are about 2.1 billion Christians. 2.1 / 7 Billion is 30%, from a quick calculation.

In Christianity, people go to heaven for believing, not based on anything they do. So certainly God wouldn't just trim it down to 2%.

danbaron
20-05-2011, 01:22
I hope we are right, Joseph, and in the end, everything turns out for the good.

JosephE
20-05-2011, 05:16
Which end? ;)

danbaron
21-05-2011, 08:38
There are followers of his (Harold Camping), some who I think he sees daily, who have spent their life savings to spread the message about May 21st.

According to the article in The Independent, his Family Radio Network has assets of 120 million dollars.

If he is wrong, it seems at least some of the believers are going to be in very bad financial situations. Do you think he will feel a moral responsibility to reimburse those people?

To me, that would be the true test of whether or not he is a jackass.

zak
21-05-2011, 10:35
Dan
If he is wrong, it seems at least some of the believers...
i think no because he will say i said it will begins at may 21, i have this idea from the advertisement near the previous post by dan, the advertisement like this:
Judgment Day begins on May 21, 2011!

so "begins" can be treated as the very beginning ie infancy of the beginning so we have many years ahead and more money to Radio Network

danbaron
21-05-2011, 20:13
Hi zak.

From what I've heard on talk radio over the last few weeks, Camping says that sometime on May 21st, all of the good people will be instantaneously "teleported" to Heaven. So, those who are still here on May 22nd, have Hell as their final destination. In that case, if he and his followers are still here on May 22nd, then, either they have been judged defective by God, or, Camping was wrong, and those of his followers who quit their jobs, and spent all of their money, should begin to realize that they now are in a bad situation. They bet everything on the chance that they would not have to worry about money after May 21st, but now they will recognize that they made a bad bet, and unless they commit suicide, they will need the money they no longer have, in order to live out the reminder of their natural lives. If this happens, then, the differences between the situations of Camping himself, and those of his newly poor followers, will be that Camping is still rich, and anyway, most likely the remainder of his natural life will not be very long.

From what I have heard, after all of the good people are removed from Earth on May 21st, Earth will begin to undergo a series of unimaginably terrible natural disasters (super-volcanoes, super-floods, super-storms, etc.) until October of 2011. Then, the planet itself will be destroyed, and those still alive will find themselves in Hell, along with the others who previously died since May 21st.

Another weird thing to me, is that Camping says that approximately 2 per cent of the world's population will be "saved" on May 21st. That is about 1 person in 50. He didn't say anything about the ages of these people. So, I guess that 2 per cent includes all the people who will be saved, regardless of their ages. Therefore, it seems to me, that many children will be among those who are condemned. For instance, my guess is that children younger than 6 years old, comprise more than 2% of the world's population. So, I think that Camping is unable or unwilling to clearly reason. Basically, he seems to me to be, a narcissistic old man, who is enraged because the world is going in the opposite direction of what he (God's highest representative) thinks it should be. My guess is that he is not worried at all about those who believed him and will find themselves still here and penniless tomorrow.

I think he is angry today, and he will be angry tomorrow. I think that tomorrow he will start to distribute blame, and none will be directed at himself. Narcissists never blame themselves, even for murders they have committed, correct?

Charles Pegge
22-05-2011, 23:18
Harold Camping ascendeth?

danbaron
23-05-2011, 07:25
http://www.christianpost.com/news/harold-camping-to-issue-public-statement-on-failed-prediction-monday-50411/

JosephE
23-05-2011, 18:29
Those are interesting reads, that's for sure.

danbaron
24-05-2011, 05:07
See, he's still right.

OAKLAND, Calif. – California preacher Harold Camping said Monday his prophecy that the world would end was off by five months because Judgment Day actually will come on Oct. 21. ...

But Camping said that he's now realized the apocalypse will come five months after May 21, the original date he predicted. He had earlier said Oct. 21 was when the globe would be consumed by a fireball.

There was only a misunderstanding. Saturday was just the Invisible Judgment Day. October 21st will be the Visible Judgment Day. I should have thought of that.

Saturday was "an invisible judgment day" in which a spiritual judgment took place, he said. But the timing and the structure is the same as it has always been, he said.

"We've always said May 21 was the day, but we didn't understand altogether the spiritual meaning," he said. "May 21 is the day that Christ came and put the world under judgment."

And, he needn't worry about those who used up all of their money for May 21st. That matter is between those people and God. He has, "washed his hands", and behold, they are clean!

Camping said Family Radio would never tell anyone what they should do with their possessions.

"That is between them and God," he said.

But he said he wouldn't give away all his possessions ahead of Oct 21.
"I still have to live in a house, I still have to drive a car," he said. "What would be the value of that? If it is Judgment Day why would I give it away?"

Yeah, just because it is Judgment Day, why would be be stupid enough to give away his house and car? He still has to have a place to live, and he still has to be able to get from one place to another, even in Heaven, right? Do you think he is crazy? Do you expect that he will suddenly grow wings?!?!!

Ye of little faith - the righteous shall prosper, and the evil shall perish, behold!! Shazzam!!!

:evil: :twisted:

Charles Pegge
24-05-2011, 05:36
I am intrigued that this apocalyptic forecast converges towards the Mayan 2012 end-of-calendar.

Sell all your worldly possessions, cash in your savings and you might be able to purchase a ticket for one of the Olympic events (London July 2012) :)

Charles

danbaron
24-05-2011, 06:02
By nature, all I care about is men's track.

And, from experience, it is much cheaper to view on television.

JosephE
24-05-2011, 15:14
Hahaha, wow. Next time someone predicts the end of the world, I'd like to see them say they're wrong...Just out of courtesy at least.

danbaron
25-05-2011, 21:01
(My opinion.)

Some people are troubled by the harmful consequences of their actions to others, even the indirect harmful consequences.

Some people's minds are too primitive to make the connection between what they have done, and the harm to others, unless the connection is direct.

Some people don't care about how they may have harmed others, unless, the harm results in them also being harmed. (If someone has a very weak or a nonexistent conscience, would he realize that he is deficient?)

You can see it throughout history. The leader of a country may just have had a million people killed, and for him, all that matters, is that the sun is shining, and, it's a beautiful day. He's happy as a lark.

(And, for some, every sacrifice of themselves (but preferably others) is permissible, in order to facilitate the ultimate success of the greatest possible (and undoubtable) good, "the cause".)

REDEBOLT
26-05-2011, 03:44
Book 20 Proverbs
028:010 Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he
shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall
have good things in possession.

Book 40 Matthew
007:015 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Book 41 Mark
013:022 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall
shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even
the elect.

Book 42 Luke
006:026 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did
their fathers to the false prophets.

Book 61 2 Peter
002:001 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as
there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall
bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought
them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Book 62 1 John
004:001 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether
they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into
the world.

Regards,
Bob

danbaron
26-05-2011, 07:58
To me, anyone who is intentionally evil, must be either, dumb, out of control, or, an atheist with absolute certainty.

Dan