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Thread: Tbo2

  1. #1

    Tbo2

    Hi Everyone!

    It has been a while since I posted anything to the forum.

    I was wondering how Eros and the thinBasic community feel about porting thinBasic to Oxygen Basic for a 32/64 bit interpreter with a JIT compiler option?

    I think everyone has given Drake plenty of time to show they have an interest in carrying on with PowerBASIC as a commercial product. I'm not alone feeling there is no future investing in PB any longer.

    I think an O2 boost would get thinBasic back in the spotlight and the community excited about a bright future.

    John

    FWIW:

    I ran the thinBasic count to a million benchmark in in Script BASIC as a compare and here are my results.

    thinBasic: 0.344 seconds

    Script BASIC: (Windows 32 bit) 0.703 seconds.

    This is only comparing the execution speed of the FOR/NEXT with a variable incremented.
    Last edited by John Spikowski; 26-06-2018 at 07:14.
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  2. #2
    Hi John
    yes every one feel sad that the PB development status in the freezer, and even the late BZ setting now in the paradise but he is allowed to work with computers 8 BIT only with 8088 cpu and DOS 2.0 this is because he can't predict while he was in the mundane world the quick advent of the 64BIT computing.
    i don't think Eros is able to begin with a new compiler from scratch for too much reasons including he is busy in the work. and the age also play a role, this is my imagination.
    there are many talks about Rust https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/ and from the page it support Unicode as explained in the online code execution.
    i have installed it and it produce small exe files. but i haven't gone more than "Hello World"
    fn main() {
        println!("Hello World");
    }
    
    the exe size is 150kb
    also look Exploring Rust fat pointers https://iandouglasscott.com/
    may be Eros , Petr look at it.

  3. #3
    thinBasic author ErosOlmi's Avatar
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    Petr is already testing RUST lang.

    https://github.com/petrSchreiber/Rus...IC-DLL-interop
    www.thinbasic.com | www.thinbasic.com/community/ | psch.thinbasic.com
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  4. #4
    thinBasic author ErosOlmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Spikowski View Post
    Hi Everyone!

    It has been a while since I posted anything to the forum.

    I was wondering how Eros and the thinBasic community feel about porting thinBasic to Oxygen Basic for a 32/64 bit interpreter with a JIT compiler option?

    I think everyone has given Drake plenty of time to show they have an interest in carrying on with PowerBASIC as a commercial product. I'm not alone feeling there is no future investing in PB any longer.

    I think an O2 boost would get thinBasic back in the spotlight and the community excited about a bright future.

    John

    FWIW:

    I ran the thinBasic count to a million benchmark in in Script BASIC as a compare and here are my results.

    thinBasic: 0.344 seconds

    Script BASIC: (Windows 32 bit) 0.703 seconds.

    This is only comparing the execution speed of the FOR/NEXT with a variable incremented.
    Ciao John,

    So far I'm very happy with PB10.
    It has all I need and much more.
    Yes, having a 32 and 64 bit compiler would open thinBasic some new features but not much.
    The most important would be to have more virtual memory available for each process but not much more features.
    thinBasic is not a compiler but just a source code interpreter so I have no big advantages from 64bit.

    Consider thinBasic project is now more than 150k lines of code. Moving from current compiler to another one would be a huge project.
    But one of the positive fact of thinBasic structure is that it is modular so you can have Core engine written in PB10, another module written in FreeBasic (for example), another one in PB or C or RUST or FreePascal or whatever compiler able to generate 32bit DLLs. Why do I have to rewrite all when it is possible to cooperate with modules written with the language you prefer?

    What I will for sure study will be to test if I'm able to develop a thinBasic module using Oxygen so developers interested to develop thinBasic modules will have another compiler available.
    I do not see big troubles because Oxygen has almost the same variable data types that thinBasic has and the other way round.


    And yes: thinBasic is quite fast considering it is a pure source code interpreter without any intermediate language generated.
    If you will test more you will see that it has great speed in strings too.
    Maybe not so fast in repetitive function calling passing parameters or defining local variables: most of the time is consumed in allocating / de-allocating memory in local stack (local variables and parameters).

    Ciao
    Eros
    Last edited by ErosOlmi; 26-06-2018 at 14:45.
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  5. #5
    Will thinBasic remain closed source for the foreseeable future?
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  6. #6
    thinBasic author ErosOlmi's Avatar
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    thinBasic Core engine: yes.
    Most of the modules I developed: yes.

    Some module source code is available at GitHub: https://github.com/search?o=desc&q=t...e=Repositories

    And more will come.
    Last edited by ErosOlmi; 05-07-2018 at 12:44.
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  7. #7
    I'm happy to hear that O2 may become an alternative to PowerBASIC for expanding thinBasic.
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Petr Schreiber's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    I do admire the work Charles did and does on OxygenBASIC. I watch the project with interest! I really do like it as JIT booster for thinBASIC scripts.

    However, in my search for compiler tool for new module projects I landed in the land of Rust. I use it for more than year now.

    The main advantages for me are:
    • fabulous documentation (free book and reference guide)
    • well thought package system
    • long term vision, clear indication regarding which part of design is in progress, which is finished
    • performance of C without the extra layers of C++ (garbage collector and other unpredictable elements)
    • smart way to design object oriented design without repeating the class approach we have seen in ton of languages already


    And of course, ready to use bindings for OpenGL, OpenCL, CUDA and Vulkan.

    I agree with Eros that the diversity of languages used for thinBASIC development is very good - it is always tempting to stick with one language, but it is much better to simply use the right tool for given job.
    ThinBASIC modularity allows this. Writing Rust bindings was piece of cake (with immense support from Eros ).


    Petr
    Last edited by Petr Schreiber; 05-07-2018 at 10:50.
    Learn 3D graphics with ThinBASIC, learn TBGL!
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  9. #9
    @Petr
    i have installed your rust module with cargo build --release as you said, on my non configured rust installation using a big file (offline setup) but i got a x64 dll size 134kb. so i have uninstalled it and reinstalled it with online rustup‑init.exe and applying your instructions especially the For Default host triple? enter i686-pc-windows-msvc it is installed successfully, and then applying cargo build --release again inside your thinbasic rust package, and the produced DLL is 118kb in size. the test file "test_lib.tbasic" works okay with the rust_interop.dll
    what do you advice for installing OpenGL with rust, as i have tried before with non configured Rust installation and i have failed. my system for running Rust is windows 7/ x64
    Thanks for this project

  10. #10
    Hi Petr,

    Glad to see you're still an active member of the thinBasic community.

    I think Eros's thought's on using O2 as an alternative to PowerBASIC for custom modules is a great idea. Keeping it BASIC.

    The extension modules for Script BASIC are written in C (C BASIC - gcc BASIC preprocessor) so they are cross platform.

    Charles's DLLC is a gift for Script BASIC that keeps on giving. I could never thank Charles enough for all the effort he invested in unraveling SB and extending it with O2. (FFI, virtual DLLs, C variable / structures, low level COM, ...)
    ScriptBasic Project Manager
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