Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Harbour

  1. #1
    thinBasic MVPs danbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,378
    Rep Power
    152

    Harbour

    I downloaded and installed Harbour - over 50 MB. http://www.harbour-project.org/ I previously read that there is an IDE, but, if there is, I can't find it. I read somewhere, that on Linux, it should run, "out of the box". I think it was developed on Linux. Maybe, the IDE is there. I don't know how you are supposed to learn the language. I can find documentation showing examples, and descriptions of library functions, but, not much about the language itself. If you read the Wikipedia article, you get the impression that Harbour, is a Clipper clone. I guess you are supposed to read about Clipper, and then you will understand Harbour. I looked up Clipper. It is old. Where could someone learn it? Actually, the Wikipedia article contains more information about Harbour (the core language), than I have been able to find anywhere else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbour_%28software%29 (Note:, for me, the Forum editing is again malfunctioning. I cannot change the font. Formatting commands appear in the text. I insert line breaks, and they disappear when I save the post, etc. You can see, this entire post is one long paragraph, and, I didn't format it that way.)
    Last edited by danbaron; 04-03-2011 at 08:46.
    "You can't cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump." - W.C.Fields

  2. #2
    thinBasic MVPs kryton9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Naples, Florida & Duluth, Georgia
    Age
    67
    Posts
    3,869
    Rep Power
    404
    Thanks Dan for the link and find. I always wanted to play with clipper. But at the time I went with Paradox from Borland with their PAL language. Which I was very happy with and so never real tried clipper.

    One of these weeks when I feel like experimenting, I definitely will try this out.

  3. #3
    I downloaded the nightly version of Harbour yesterday, inside the bin folder there is a file called hbide.exe which is the IDE. However I couldn't get it to run because I don't think it comes with the necessary Qt libraries so I downloaded another version from here.

  4. #4
    thinBasic MVPs danbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,378
    Rep Power
    152
    I don't know why, but my version did not have hbide.exe in the bin directory.

    But, now I am downloading it from the link that you found.

    I am still doubtful about being able to find documentation for the core Harbour language. As I said above, the most documentation I have been able to find about the core language, is on the Wikipedia page, and, that isn't much. The documentation on the Harbour home page only contains a reference guide, not a user's guide. The doc directory that comes with the implementation does not contain much useful for learning Harbour's syntax and constructs, as far as I can determine. So, how does a person learn the language? I have found this to be a significant problem with some languages that might be very good. For many potential users, if there is no tutorial that teaches about the language itself, then, frustration quickly sets in. Aren't languages generally difficult to learn from only a reference guide and example code?





    Last edited by danbaron; 09-03-2011 at 08:00.
    "You can't cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump." - W.C.Fields

  5. #5
    Dan
    I agree with you,Harbour documentation is very poor especialy
    about GUI windows programming.
    By the way on GGroups mailing list one guy ask question about
    simple GUI example with win32 api and anothere answer this:
    I've developed a basic application (for tests only) using the native
    features of Windows. It's hard, but you can ... In real life, is more
    easy use the resources of an GUI library like hwGUI or MiniGUI.
    What kind of answer is that?

  6. #6
    thinBasic MVPs danbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,378
    Rep Power
    152
    I got the IDE to run. So, I loaded a file from the Harbour examples directory, the misc sub-directory, called, "guess.prg". I tried to compile it. Here is the output from the attempted compilation.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Project [ C:/hb20/examples/misc/guess.prg ] Launch [ No ] Rebuild [ Yes ] Started [ 23:50:21 ]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Batch File Exists => C:\Users\root\AppData\Local\Temp\zavu8u.bat
    Batch File Contents =>
    hbmk2 -q -trace -info -lang=en -width=0 -rebuild -s C:\hb20\examples\misc\guess.prg
    Command => C:\Windows\system32\cmd.exe
    Arguments => /C C:\Users\root\AppData\Local\Temp\zavu8u.bat
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CurDir() => hbIDE Starting in => C:\hb20\examples\misc\
    C:\hb20\examples\misc>hbmk2 -q -trace -info -lang=en -width=0 -rebuild -s C:\hb20\examples\misc\guess.prg
    'hbmk2' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
    operable program or batch file.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Exit Code [ 1 ] Exit Status [ 0 ] Finished at [ 23:50:22 ] Done in [ 0.90 Secs ]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To me, this result is not very encouraging.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    About the GUI, Aurel, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. First of all, I know little about GUIs, I really have never had much interest in them. I have seen books about the Windows API, and, in my opinion, they are confusing. Over the years, many times I have read that programming the Windows API is difficult. I'm guessing that for you, programming it is not very hard.

    But, apparently, for other people it is hard. For PowerBASIC, they have PowerBASIC Forms. Also, EZGUI, made by Chris Boss. I remember that Chris Boss wrote that it took him years to fully understand the Windows API. Also, Firefly. All three are built on top of the Windows API.

    Microsoft apparently, also doesn't like the Windows API. They have made, .NET Windows Forms. How long before the Windows API will no longer be included as part of Windows? How long before you will have to download it separately?

    And, how many other GUI libraries are there? Like wx, Tk, Qt, etc.

    On Linux, there is no Windows API. I think there is either KDE or GNOME. And guess what?, the sun still rises every morning!

    Actually, I much prefer Linux over Windows, for a variety of reasons.

    Even with Windows 7, I still think Linux is more stable.

    Also, of course, Linux is open source, not proprietary.

    Who wants to use a proprietary operating system?

    It seems to me that with Linux, you can always find an answer. But, with Windows, you may never find an answer, because, the source code is guarded like an ocean filled with crude oil. Additionally, Microsoft is in business to maximize their profit. They don't care one bit about programmers. They care about addicting the masses to using their operating system. That is why Windows is now built almost entirely for multimedia. Additionally, with Linux, a programmer knows that it will remain fundamentally the same into the distant future. On the other hand, Microsoft will instantly change Windows depending only upon which way the profit wind is blowing, without one thought for all of the programmers who are devastated by their decisions. Apple functions in exactly the same way - guess what?, in order to be able to use the new operating system, you'll have to buy a new computer - too bad! Always, you have to buy a faster system with more RAM, or, you're left behind. Actually, it's the same with every technological product. Make it to either quickly break, or to quickly become obsolete, so that the people must continually buy things again and again at ever decreasing intervals, in order to continue to be able to do what they need and want to do.

    I would be happier if everyone moved over to Linux, then, we would remember Windows, only in our nightmares.



    Last edited by danbaron; 09-03-2011 at 11:08.
    "You can't cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump." - W.C.Fields

  7. #7
    Dan
    I dont espect from you this type of answer....?
    This topic is about Harbour and not about which OS is better or not.
    I dont agree with you in many things which you say now.
    Personaly WinAPI is great way for programming and i like how work.
    Linux dont have native GUI subsystem and becose of this i dont like
    linux to much.
    For me programming on linux looks like a nightmare-belive or not.

  8. #8
    Hi Dan I don't know if you've solved the new problem you're having with hbmk2.exe but if you haven't I believe all you need to do is add the location of your Harbour bin directory to your PATH environment variable.

    In the case of my computer that would be... C:\hb21\bin

    There's a forum here which I recently joined which provides a lot of help with the Harbour language. They don't tend to use HBIDE however but prefer MiniGUI instead.

  9. #9
    That is what i dont like with all this languages ,it force you to use some
    third party GUI-s.
    I want on windows use native win32 api...
    Which present native look & feel of windows app.

  10. #10
    thinBasic MVPs danbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,378
    Rep Power
    152
    I always go off topic, Aurel. That's part of my personality. I can't change myself. I didn't intend to offend you.

    My experience is that sooner or later many people learn the hard way, that the institutions to which they have allegiance, have no allegiance to them. In my opinion, this especially includes governments and corporations.

    I'm wasn't saying there is anything bad about the win32 api, I was just saying that a lot of people must think it is difficult, or else there would not be so many products which overlay it, and attempt to simplify its use. Even thinBasic does that, doesn't it?

    I hope that the win32 api continues on far into the future. I have no interest in .NET. But, I think that Microsoft does. And, it seems to me that even disregarding .NET, most likely before long, instead of the win32 api, there will at least be the win64 api, which will probably be significantly different in functionality. Remember, that originally, Windows was 16 bit, now it is 32, and is in the process of transitioning to 64. 16 bits is long gone. At some point, so will be 32 bits.

    (But, Linux will never betray you. It has no motive to do so.)

    ---------------------------

    That's good then, Matthew. I will set the path, and look at the forum. And, maybe get MINIGUI. It seems that you are removing Harbour from my junk pile.

    Now I have to hurry to catch the train.

    Dan

    Last edited by danbaron; 10-03-2011 at 08:33.
    "You can't cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump." - W.C.Fields

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •